Curse

Lanier · Jul 07, 2010, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Lately, iv been playing my very old paragon again. I haven't really played him in a long time but the update to how heroes maintain AR convinced me to start playing him again (its pretty sad when the reason i decide to come back to him revolves around not having to maintain AR myself

). I remember back in the good ole days when i would occasionally play a motivation healing build on my para, so i decided, despite the nerfs to mending refrain and SoR, I would try to ressurect my old build. This is roughly what I came up with:

Signet of Synergy
Infuse Health
Finale of Restoration
Song of Restoration
Ballad of Restoration
Chorus of Restoration
There's Nothing to Fear
Mending Refrain

So I basically have two questions. First is, do you guys think a paragon motivation healer is viable? I know it would not be optimal or even good, i just want to know if a paragon healer would work. Second, what changes would you make to the above build? Would going /r for serpents quickness be advisable? How would you construct a paragon healer?

Luminarus · Jul 07, 2010, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Itll work... so would a bar with Aggressive Refrain & GFTE to maintain it.

Will it be good... well you got low (or no) damage, mediocre party heals, infuse health and a 50% of the time damage reduction. Try and see, hard to guess based on the skills but id guess youll be better off with something else.

Lanier · Jul 07, 2010, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Oh I'm sure that offensive or imbagon builds would be better paragon builds and that monks or Rits would make better primary healers. I'm just asking whether a paragon would work as a primary healer and how I should go about doing so.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jul 07, 2010, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

So I basically have two questions. First is, do you guys think a paragon motivation healer is viable? I know it would not be optimal or even good, i just want to know if a paragon healer would work. Second, what changes would you make to the above build? Would going /r for serpents quickness be advisable? How would you construct a paragon healer?

First:
Yeah, it's viable. Certainly not optimal, but you'll be able to win at PvE despite the build.

Second:
I would change the build to an Imbagon. I would not go /R for Serpent's Quickness because that would preclude the use of Save Yourselves. I would not construct a paragon healer.

Naughty Nurse · Jul 07, 2010, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

First:
Yeah, it's viable. Certainly not optimal, but you'll be able to win at PvE despite the build.

Second:
I would change the build to an Imbagon. I would not go /R for Serpent's Quickness because that would preclude the use of Save Yourselves. I would not construct a paragon healer.

Sad but true, Imba is by far the best thing a para can do.

The build you created makes sense, should work fine. it will not replace a monk in a party imo, therefor you will still need 2 monks, wich is enough for a party. If i was party leader, id prefer the para to go imba... It just the way it is

Bob_ftw · Jul 07, 2010, 11:45 AM // 11:45

thats just the old ha zergway build...

Lanier · Jul 07, 2010, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob_ftw

thats just the old ha zergway build...

If I remember right (this was like a year and a half ago, so i may be incorrect) i did base my build on the HA SoR one. There were some differences though as I believe the zergway one had AoF to maintain mending refrain and also had sig of return in it somewhere, though i dont know what in my build it replaces...

First, I want to make it clear that im not looking for the "optimal" role of a paragon. As I have admitted, an imbagon would be better than a healingon. I just want to role this for fun, and i was wondering if it would work. My question in the beginning was if i would be able to replace the healing monk in a party (so, uh, thanks for answering the question naught nurse

)

Anyway, i guess i just go test it out in a vq, replacing dunkoro with myself to see how it works.

mage767 · Jul 07, 2010, 02:57 PM // 14:57

I would suggest you use AP as elite not only for added energy managment but also for spamming the shouts that heal allies. Here's the build I use H/H HM:

<pvxbig>
[build prof=P/A name="Mael's AP Motigon" dead=8 spe=9 mot=10 lea=9][Assassin's Promise][Finale of Restoration][Signet of Synergy][Aria of Restoration][Ballad of Restoration][Aria of Zeal]["There's Nothing to Fear!"][Angelic Protection][/build]
</pvxbig>

OQek4hl5pim0CUKWMmHGHmGGQoMG

+1 leadership rune
+2 (+1) motivation headpiece

The skills are justified as follows:
AP: Energy management + every skill recharge
FoR: Cast on many allies as possible (between fights)
SoS: Heal ally or yourself
The 3 motigon shouts: Spam them often as possible
TNTF: Must needed protection + heals
Angelic Protection: Great skill for spike protection.

Use a single monk henchie if you go out with this build. Happy healing.

chuckles79 · Jul 07, 2010, 08:48 PM // 20:48

I would never play this build, but I would be interested if it can be used (minus TftF) for hero use since the Racway motigon was cripped by nerfs.
That is one thing I really want to see in any major paragon update, would be Paragon teams being viable for VQ'ing 4 person areas without undue hardship.

NerfHerder · Jul 07, 2010, 09:38 PM // 21:38

That build would be best suited for use with another Paragon or use it on a Hero. Sometimes I take my Imba with a motivation and command/leadership hero for giggles. But you dont get as much damage as other hero builds. If your going through low end stuff its ok, but once you get to high end PvE its lack of effectiveness starts to show. No one has posted it yet, so here is a link to racway, it works pretty good.

Team_-_2_Man_Racway

Gift3d · Jul 08, 2010, 01:05 AM // 01:05

post-oppressive deletion, i still don't see what that para can do that a monk with patient and heal party cannot

Khomet Si Netjer · Jul 08, 2010, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Hi Lanier,
I vanquished Ascalon with a paragon healer (I was imbagon) so I have some experience with it. Energy is a killer for all healers, especially paras, and even more so in 4 man areas. Fortunately there are some good signets and related anthems that can help with this.
Hex Eater signet and signet of rejuvenation are great, also consider empathic removal, expel hexes, spirit light weapon and xinrae's weapon. Oldschool Word of healing is good too. Bring energizing chorus, lyric of zeal, lyric of purification to go with the signets and shouts. The finales are your most efficient healing so take them along with as many quick-recharge shouts and anthems as you can, along with another paragon to help trigger them. Don't forget condition and hex removal because they will hurt you more than they will hurt a monk or rit.
Whisper me ingame if you want to mess around with this, it sounds like fun. :-)

WarcryOfTruth · Jul 12, 2010, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Paragon healers are almost, if not as efficient as any other healer. Either by using Leader's Zeal or better yet Energizing Finale to maintain your energy to spam Infuse Health indefinitely, all the while Finale of Restoration keeps your health full due to the number of shouts and chants ending on you so frequently. In a team of all Paragons and/or Warriors, this healer cannot be outmatched. I have used it in an all Paragon AB team and we steamrolled and it was quite funny

.

Khomet Si Netjer · Jul 12, 2010, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Paragon healers are almost, if not as efficient as any other healer. Either by using Leader's Zeal or better yet Energizing Finale to maintain your energy to spam Infuse Health indefinitely, all the while Finale of Restoration keeps your health full due to the number of shouts and chants ending on you so frequently. In a team of all Paragons and/or Warriors, this healer cannot be outmatched. I have used it in an all Paragon AB team and we steamrolled and it was quite funny .

I've never tried Infuse Health on a paragon, it seems to me that the cost would be prohibitive. It's a lot to pay even for a monk, that's why we usually only see ER elementalists spamming it all over the place. I think paragon would have a very hard time keeping up with the cost but I'll take your word for it. Let me know next time you feel like some all-paragon AB or FoW action, I'm game. :-)

here's a build using skills i mentioned before. i'm not claiming it's the best available.

P/Mo
12 healing
12+1+1 motivation
3+1 leadership

word of healing
signet of rejuvenation
signet of synergy
lyric of zeal
ballad of restoration
finale of restoration
finale of purification
cure hex

good single target healing, good energy management, some mass healing and mass energy gain (requires a signet), good condition removal, some hex removal as well. this build gets more powerful if traveling with more paragons because their shouts will also trigger the finales. leadership isn't too high because it only helps with two skills (ballad and lyric) and we make up for it with higher energy gain from higher motivation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

post-oppressive deletion, i still don't see what that para can do that a monk with patient and heal party cannot

well as it stands now, they can't compete at all. the monk can cast heal party every 2 seconds, the paragon chants have 20 second recharge or more. :-(
that is pretty pathetic because reading the motivation skills makes it clear that the paragon was designed for mass healing rather than strong single-target healing. Possibly many or all of the motivation skills need to be reworked to provide smaller benefits over a longer duration, and I've suggested many of these on my wiki page. That way the paragon can bring unique benefits to the party without directly competing with monks and ritualists.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:..._skill_changes

Lanier · Jul 12, 2010, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Thanks for the responses everyone. Im heading out to do some WIK stuff with my paragon right now so ill give these different possibilities a try.

HigherMinion · Jul 15, 2010, 01:01 PM // 13:01

aren't you maintaining your energy with Adren skills? GFTE even without attributes in Command is good for that. Also consider The Power is Yours!

Khomet Si Netjer · Jul 15, 2010, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

aren't you maintaining your energy with Adren skills? GFTE even without attributes in Command is good for that. Also consider The Power is Yours!

I think it's better to have good healing (and use skills that require minimal energy) rather than using an elite energy management skill to power other skills... so in the build i posted above all the skills are low cost or no cost, except for Ballad of Restoration. While its effect is not as strong as I'd like, it still beats Heal Party since it costs 8 energy instead of 15 and heals for roughly the same amount. HP is much better in terms of recharge but the paragon doesn't have the energy to do that anyway.

Here's another build I've been playing around with if you like to experiment.

P/Me
Motivation 12+1+1
Leadership 9+1
Inspiration 9

the power is yours
chorus of restoration / hexbreaker aria
hex eater signet
signet of synergy
ballad of restoration
finale of restoration
finale of purification
mantra of inscriptions

this has mass energy gain, mass hex removal and good condition removal but is much worse at single-target healing. however the constant rain of shouts will make the finales more effective. energy management is good because of dual adrenaline shouts and fairly high leadership.

maxxfury · Jul 19, 2010, 11:15 PM // 23:15

But TPIY IS elite energy management

you spam it with leadership for monstrous amounts of energy gain

*rolsleyes

Khomet Si Netjer · Jul 20, 2010, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

But TPIY IS elite energy management

you spam it with leadership for monstrous amounts of energy gain

*rolsleyes

Yeah I know, but TPIY doesn't really do anything that other non-elite adrenaline shouts don't do already. Take GFTE, Energizing Chorus, or Chorus of Restoration and you get the same energy without wasting your elite slot.
So I prefer to use Word of Healing or Song of Purification. But if you like TPIY there is a build that uses it.

HigherMinion · Jul 20, 2010, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

Yeah I know, but TPIY doesn't really do anything that other non-elite adrenaline shouts don't do already. Take GFTE, Energizing Chorus, or Chorus of Restoration and you get the same energy without wasting your elite slot.
So I prefer to use Word of Healing or Song of Purification. But if you like TPIY there is a build that uses it.

I do believe I also mentioned GFTE... I don't think there's any point taking 10s+ recharge skills on a paragon with infinite energy anyway.